Author Topic: Tips and Tricks  (Read 14582 times)

Lawrence Hanson

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Tips and Tricks
« on: January 08, 2011, 05:40:28 PM »
This topic is intended to provide insight to all of us, new and experienced. Please share with us what you have done to improve your competitiveness or equipment to become a winner. How do you prepare for a match, psychologically, as well as your equipment and loading?  How do you compensate for poor or rapidly changing conditions, what techniques do you use to adapt to poor or changing conditions?  How do you manage the stress of competion?  What do you do to beat the best of the competion at any given match? In summary, what do you do to win?

LE Hanson
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 05:48:44 PM by Lawrence Hanson »

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 06:55:29 PM »
Well Psychologically I have not mastered it yet. The few people that I have had the chance to watch I see a swinging pendulums. There are most definitely people who have watched WAY MORE shooters than I have but there are few that come to mind that I would like to be like. This is what I see from the outside.  I do not know what they are feeling on the inside though.

Firstly to be competitive I feel one must be able to DEAL with the highs and lows. You need to be able to deal with whatever situation is thrown at you but mostly be able to shake off the bad ones QUICKLY. If not, you will let it eat you alive. If you can do that and shut all the bad vibes out for about 8 minutes you will be a better shooter.  

Our matches up here are SMALL.  I try to help run the matches and shoot well. Trust me it is not easy.  I just realized that my best shooting was when I was NOT involved in the politics of the game. Maybe in time that will not affect me to the same extent it does today or just have to say F to the politics and just shoot. That would not work either.

I HATE looking at the standings or HAVE someone tell me how I am doing.  LEAVE ME ALONE if I am doing well. Come and talk to me AFTER.  I am beginning to understand these guys who reload in there own trailers. They are there with just the people they want around them.  

I HATE having to rush, even after the day of shooting is done.  I just want to crack a beer or a NEW bottle of Forty Creek and have a drink while I get my brass ready for the next day.

So have I mastered it yet,NO. IT will take some time.  I think I have gotten over the shakes of shooting the first few groups of a match.

So if anything I have told EVERYONE what to do if they want to BEAT me.

In regards to equipment I am VERY PARTICULAR of how I look after it.  I keep it clean and in order so DO NOT mess with it.

Enough, of this.  I have a lot of work to do. Maybe some time with a sports Psychologist is in order.  I have never won or came close to winning so I have a lot more work to do.

I want to hear from those who have won. George, Vera, Bill, Robert, Dan, Lyle, Murray, Harold etc......... You know what I realized all these people appear to be quite HUMBLE except for Bill????????????? OR is he???? How you do it Bill? Honestly????????

Calvin






« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 06:56:54 PM by cyanchycki »
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Offline John VM

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2011, 11:08:49 AM »
 One of the most profound statements I have heard in benchrest but one of the wisest was " do not try to shoot the smallest groups possible, just shoot the best ones possible for the conditions you have". A small group means nothing in an agg when two blown groups are included because we waited for everything to be perfect(they never are).
 I believe that one of the things that should be practiced is proper set up of equipment and reloading stuff and the practiced steps to make this part of the game flawless. When you are proficient in this area much of the stress of competition should be reduced. Things like forgotten bolt or your rest is not secure or no primers or your relay is called to the line and you still have to seat bullets and it takes you 3 minutes to set everything on your bench the way you like it. Learn to do the minimum things required to get a good solid routine going and practice till it becomes second nature. Even when commence fire is called and you are still walking to the line you still have time to set up and shoot a .299 200 yd group and have your bench cleared before everything else without running or breaking out in a sweat.That one was taught to me by Bill G at Elmira several years ago.

Lawrence Hanson

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 09:34:48 PM »
Thanks to those who have responded, your insight is very helpful. Empirical insight is what I was hoping for.

But I am looking for a little more depth into the subject. Much of the information shared here, and on other forums, is mainly based on technology or equipment.  As I see it, benchrest shooting consists of a combination of technology and art. The technology part is fairly well documented and understood; the artistic aspect is understood only by those who have much experience. This aspect of benchrest competion is not always well explained and is what I would like to learn.

We all spend a lot of money and time attempting to get good at the game.  Generally we are successful at developing our shooting style and tuning our equipment. But then the match starts: you find out your flags are not lined up right, you get tense, forget to lock in the front rest post, can’t keep your hand from shaking, flinch without realizing it, rush your shots because everyone else is doing the same thing, then stop when you hear a lot of cursing and whaling down the line, the brain reaches overload, you shoot an ugly three incher at 200 yards, etc…  Then there are a couple of guys on the line who are having a great time, laughing, joking, and congratulating one another.  These are the guys who shoot well, shoot through rough conditions, never have technical difficulties, and just make it look easy.  Those are the guys who have developed the art of competition. After the match you can ask them all the questions you want but at the end of the day is seems to me it boils down to psychology.  The winners have been shooting long enough that not only they have developed a sixth sense about benchrest shooting in general but they are also there to have fun. This is what I consider the art of the sport.

Am I way off here?  Does it require a certain personality to develop the art?  Are some folks cut out for it and others are not?  Some of the guys who don’t win have been at it for many years and have the finest equipment. I love benchrest shooting, the friends I have made, the good times and memories, the skills I have developed: but I sure would like to win a few.  Is the art of the winning based on long term experience, or is it a gift, like artistic talent that one must naturally possess.  Or is it both.  This topic is open for all thoughts and experiences.     

Offline DanO

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 09:28:07 AM »
Lawrence,
This is a subject that comes up often, but has so many layers to it, that it is almost impossible to convey in a written responce.
With the diversity of the folks in this game, I believe that it may not be an inherent trait that makes you a champion.
One of my foremost thoughts going into a match is "he who is best prepared, has the best chance of winning." This encompasses the basics like, equipment, tune, practice and desire.
The intangible is the mental focus. There are so many variable that come into play during a match, weather, bench and rotation, other personalities, equipment failures and unforeseen surprises. All of these can and will divert you concentration from your goal of shooting consistant groups.
Only time in the game can truly prepare you for the majority of these, but it is the ability learned or inherent to turn up the focus during the 7 min. match that will enable each of us to have a chance to improve our shooting. Then we need to be able to do it 10 times in a day.
One observation is dedicated folks in this game started out having some degree of success when they first came into it, then go through a 2 - 5 year period of struggling with being at a level they feel they should be competing at. Then things start to come around again, and there is a noticeable improvement in their results.

So why is that? My belief is that we are always going through a learning curve, this includes equipment and technique changes as we gain knowledge of the game. When we find and prove what works for us we then start to focus on the mental side of the game and close the gap with the more successful shooters.


We never really stop making changes to our game, but manage it better.
Without a doubt this is a very high percentage mental sport, but each of us learn at a different rate, patience,dedication, a good support group, practice and quality competition will help us reach many of our goals.

DanO


Lawrence Hanson

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 04:50:01 PM »
Terrific response Dan, I really appreciate it and learned much from it.  Perhaps I am expecting too much from myself considering my limited experience in the game. I feel this is an educational topic and would like to keep it rolling; I would like to hear the opinions of others who are in my position and also from those who have learned the game and would be kind enough to share their thoughts and experiences on winning.  Please continue responding.

Thank You,
LE Hanson

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 07:40:04 PM »
Dan said a lot and I have heard him basically tell me those same words.

What I will add to what he said was when I hummed and hawed about going to my first major US match.  Dan, Rick Pollock, and Joe Mendham kept telling me, "you will learn and see more in one weekend than you will in a lifetime shooting in Canada".  I went, sort of reluctantly but decided to accept the challenge of the adventure.  I knew REALISTICALLY I had no hope in hell of winning but would make the best of the time there. 

When I was driving down the road to pull into the Mill Creek Range in Kansas last September I began to shake like the first time I heard the words "commence fire" at Selkirk.  I pulled up, parked and proceeded to slowly walk towards the firing line.  Scanned the firing line, loading shed and clubhouse.  There was a gentleman walking from the Range Officers post to the club house.  I stopped him and told him my dilema.  I told him this was my first major shoot in the US and I was from Canada and my name.  He thanked me profusely for making the journey.  He put his hand on my shoulder, told me a few of the ground rules.and told me not to worry it will be just fine.  If I ever felt the need to know something or needed something he told me to find him.  He put me at ease with that short 5 minute conversation.  That man was Don Creach.  What happened from that moment, was that I never once felt that shaking feeling from the first time I heard the words "commence fire".  I never felt rattled, rushed or pressured at any time.  It was actually a time where I wanted to push myself to my shooting limits against the best in the US.  I hope you understand what I am getting at by this??????

Lawrence I as you feel there is a lot of psychology involved in the game.  When we get to the point that we can control the negative energy around us where we will NOT let it control/hurt us and suck up all the positive energy from those around us who give it off we will begin to excel at the game.  To get to that point I do now believe it is shooting at the LARGE matches where we will learn that faster.  Yes there are great shooters here in Canada who have never been to a large US match but until they do I believe they have not been tested to there fullest extent.  I may get crucified for this but that is my opinion.

I had heard it and I asked Lyle Linkaitis from Selkirk how long he felt it took him to get where he felt he understood the game and felt pretty good at it.  The answer was 8 or 9 years of hard slugging.  I believe he said he shot maybe 9-12 matches a year between Selkirk and the US.  There is NO substitute for rounds down range anywhere but more so at a match.

Something to be able to watch is those who are the winners and try every now and then see what they may or may not be doing that got them there. 

Learning to be able to shoot fast when the condition presents itself is also a HUGE weapon in your arsenal.  I had never tried it until the Nationals this past year.  Wow what an eye opener.

Having trust in yourself and your bench etiquette that your shots are going where they are supposed to when you call the shot that has been fired.   

This is a bit about what I have heard and feel without repeating what Dan has said.

calvin   
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Lawrence Hanson

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 05:55:56 PM »
Another great response! Thank you Calvin.

You make a good point about the importance of attending major matches.  I have only competed locally, feeling that I am not ready for a major match because I have a hard enough time shooting competitively on my home range. Maybe I need to re-evaluate my goals, instead of trying to win I should be trying to lean all I can to become competitive. The winning will fall into place once I have developed the skills to do so. Shooting with first class competitors would help me get there sooner. I will consider traveling to larger matches this season if it fits my budget.

I would like to think this topic is turning out to be helpful for many of us.  Please keep the responses coming.

LE Hanson

Offline Mike Darlow

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2011, 05:43:53 PM »
My goal is to think of nothing else than reading the wind and bench thechnique during the whole match. #1 Stay positive.   I think the only way to get better at keeping it that simple is to compete a lot. Practicing at home by yourself and shooting competitively is completely different.

Mike
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 05:48:03 PM by Mike Darlow »

Offline Blairguy

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 03:27:37 PM »
Lawrence, your question is interesting. I am a relative beginner and this is where I am at with the psychological side of competing in bench rest.

The number of details to attend to is overwhelming. Joe Friedrich’s advice to ‘practise, practise, practise’ means rehearsing as many details as possible into a ritual or reflex.  It extends to everything about competition that we must get comfortable with. Reloading set up, bench set up, flag set up, and everything else (that can be done at home) should be rehearsed until it is done correctly without thinking. That builds confidence in our equipment and ourselves and leaves us free to focus on what is unique to the situation at hand during a match.

Try different ways and experiment with anything that might be an improvement or that might make us feel better. But the time to test and question ourselves is during preparation, not during the match.
Shoot at as many different ranges as possible. Practising always at the same range will make other ranges seem strange.
 
By the way, your wind flag set up is inspiring and I am experimenting with different designs. I plan to leave them out in the backyard over winter and hope to learn to speak their language especially when what they are saying can be compared to what the blowing snow is doing. It should be fun watching the flags from the bay window while sipping a coffee and not have to curse about a ruined group.
 
Jerry Tierney says his mind set is to practise as if it was a match and shoot a match as if it was practise. Pressure from competition will make some of the best shooters crumble so we have keep a mind set to stay relaxed and focused.

When I was riding enduros I got to ask a former world champion and ISDT gold medalist about how great it must be to have it all figured out. He laughed and said he keeps making the same silly mistake of forgetting to turn the gas on at the starting line. This made me realize that even if you make mistakes you can still win. I stopped trying to be perfect and expecting everything else to be perfect. It made it a lot easier to ride the ‘bumpy’ road to first place.
 
He advised me to never follow someone else no matter how lost I may be, after all, the other rider may be even more lost than I am. So now when it seems that things are not going so well on the target I remind myself that it might be going even worse for others. It helps me to expect to win even when things don’t go as well as hoped. When I don’t expect to win, I have beaten myself. Ultimately I never plan on winning but think that maybe today I might and so I never give up.
 
I enjoy the learning process and am very happy that bench rest shooting is as challenging as it is. I am not in a hurry and want to savour each little X that comes my way. I do plan on learning something from every match. That’s the ultimate reward for me and it makes me a winner every time.
 
You asked us for our comments but I there are also some excellent publications that relate to your question.  For instance, Launi Meili’s book Rifle – steps to success  has some excellent reading on mental preparation for competition.
That being said, I hope to shoot with you some day.  Mike

Offline Mike Darlow

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 10:54:30 PM »
The first time I ever shot or even seen a Benchrest rifle was at the Kelbly Supershoot. I got talked into going by Hobbie Bond, One of the organizers.  I got to know him through another rifle build and mentioned to him my interest in benchrest. I wanted to go and be a spectator but he would not have it.  He insisted I shoot and would gladly lend me a rifle and all the stuff necessary. So instead, I called up my gunsmith in Virginia and he offered to build me a rifle and made shure it was ready by the Supershoot. I went for it not knowing what to expect. I showed up the evening before the match start day. My flight was delayed. I was really nervous. I went to see my gunsmith and he showed me the rifle. We immediatly went to the bench and I shoot 2 groups. Fortunately for me he got a good load ready for me. I borrowed a press, a rear and front rest. Purchased powder, primers and bullets that evening. I sat down in the loading shed between team Australia and team Finland and introduced myself. I told them my situation and they helped me out the whole week. Not knowing where to eat, Hobbie Invited me for supper during the whole week at his house and I was treated like a king. What was great about these suppers is that MIke Ratigan and Walt Berger and other great shooters also regularly ate super at his house. I got a ton of good information during those evenings at the supper table.

So, my point to this story is that you shouldn't wait to get good at Benchrest to start going to benchrest matches. Just go for it and not worry about it. For me now, every match I go to I way less stressfull than the first match I ever attended. Some people wait a lifetime to go to the Supershoot, I did the process backwards and am glad I did it . I think I am a better shooter because of it. So what if I finish in last place at a match. There's always next time. The biggest worry to new shooters is what if?, what if? what if?. Just go out there and have fun. If you surround yourself with shooters that are way better than you, then the learning curve is way quicker.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 08:16:18 PM by Mike Darlow »

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2011, 12:36:56 PM »
Now the story comes out Mike.  Rubbing shoulders for a entire week with some pretty big names in the sport...............  Good on you.

Calvin
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline Mike Darlow

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 04:13:03 PM »
One thing for new shooters to understand is. In Benchrest It's ok and accepted for a new shooter to shoot beside a world champion at the same match. Here's another tip. Never take your eyes off your flags. I am still working on that one.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 08:22:02 PM by Mike Darlow »

Lawrence Hanson

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2011, 05:00:42 PM »
Snow has been coming down sideways for two days. I shoveled the patio twice already today and it has drifted over again. We have had an old fashioned winter here in Montana and it may be a while before it breaks. Two months ago I gave my Swindlehurst to my gunsmith and asked him to fit a new barrel by the end of February.  Well…you all know how gunsmiths are at keeping time. So it looks like I have plenty of time to absorb the information everyone has provided and think about how I will manage the shooting season.  Thanks to all who have responded, I have learned a lot and really appreciate your input.  If anyone else has tips or tricks to share, I will take all the help I can get. I feel this discussion has been a good learning experience for many of us.  Please keep it rolling. I have a feeling some of you old timers out there are holding back.  Sure would like to hear some more tips and tricks.   

LE Hanson

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2011, 05:39:43 PM »
Lawrence, I will guar an damn tea you there is lots of knowledge up here.  They do not want to type for fear of losing what they type or are not sure how to...........  As Mike said the learning curve is greatly shortened by shooting at the larger shoots States side.  You get to spend time and talk with those who have been there and done that.

No majors for me this year.  Hope to make it your way for the Montana State though.  Closer for me than shooting in Calgary.  2012 I hope to be in Phoenix for the Nationals if the Good Lord is willing.

Calvin
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Offline phil

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2011, 07:24:16 PM »
I got to clean my rifle right next to Calvin at my first benchrest match. Wasps & everything.

                                                                          phil

Lawrence Hanson

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2011, 07:35:55 PM »
Hey Phil,

Does Calvin really have wasps on his stuff?  Did it seem to help him shoot better?  Since I was born and raised in northern Minnesota maybe I will put misquotes on my stuff.  Please let me know.

LE Hanson 

Offline cyanchycki

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2011, 09:02:56 PM »
Kind of sort of.



The next stock will reflect the WASPS more.  Mr Smiley Face stock will not be around forever.
My house is protected by the good Lord and a GUN............
When I Die I don't wanna go Sober..................................

Lawrence Hanson

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Re: Tips and Tricks
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2011, 09:21:45 PM »
Boy Howdy! That's a lot more impressive than any gigantic mosquito. OK then, it probably does make you shoot better.  That's great! I'm going to have to come up with something like a bison head or a bucking horse or something.

This topic has obviously devolved but that's OK, it has run it's course and become more fun.  Keep it going on a fun note. 

LE Hanson

 

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